Obama or McCain or...?

It looks like we know for sure who the democratic candidate will be and we have known for some time the republican candidate for president.  Despite trying to closely follow the election I'm still not really excited about either candidate. Tim Stevens on twitter put it this way:  "The presidential choices scare me. It's like, 'You want a suppository or a catheter?'" 

So, here is your chance to convince me and a whole bunch of regular readers why one candidate (or perhaps a third??) is better than another.  Comments?

Comments

[Anne]

The problem is Dave, I can't convince you because I agree you and Tim Stevens.

[Heath Hiatt]

I have no dog in this hunt. But when it comes down to it, I always vote pro-life. McCain has always been pro-life so I guess he is going to regretfully get my vote. (by the way, Obama as an Illinois state senator voted to support partial birth abortion... That cancels him out in my book)

Heath

[alison]

These are my thoughts. The generation I am in needs a good balanced leader. We are looking for someone to take the reigns of America and bring family morals, character, and integrity to the surface. Now working in the church I would love to say that these leaders come from the church but to be real honest I really do think that we need someone outside of the church. Someone who doesn't have the name pastor tagged onto their identity in some way.

We need a political leader to rise up and to become some sort of hope for our country.

So that's what I think, and I don't know if either of these candidates can do that.

[John]

Who care's about who is president. For those that understand the Constitution and the founding father's intentions, the position of President wasn't the most important thing in the lives of American's. The local government was the important factor.

I find it maddening when people will go on and on about the details of Presidential politics, yet can't name the mayor in their town. They can't name the school board president for their kid's school district. They can't name their local Sherriff they didn't take time to vote for. These are the elected officials who ultimately will make the biggest impact on their lives.

I have a friend who complained about outrageous gas prices. They live in Chicago, the city with the highest gas sales tax in the nation (79 cents a gallon and going up), put into place by the local Chicago government. He of course blamed Bush for the high cost of his gas. The President has such a small impact on the daily lives of Americans, but is an easy target to blame when things aren't going well.

Me, I'm voting for Bob Barr...Heck, I live in IL, so our electoral college votes are going to Obama regardless.

[shane]

I'm with Tim Stevens as well. This whole super-delegate thing and the primary frenzy has made me bleed from my eyes. I also agree with Alison; we're way too under-involved in local govt. But praise God for our freedom to vote, good men and women have given all to secure that for us.

[Debbie]

The President's main job is to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. I want someone who has experience in that arena, not just an opinion about it. All the other 'stuff' that gets blamed on the President is either something that was started about 3 or 4 presidencies ago, or is handled by Congress or local government, or a combo of all. All the hoopla and razzle dazzle and bamboozlement is pretty much just divisive rhetoric and manipulative marketing in a popularity contest, which is frustrating and sad. So my take is to vote for the one who has the experience to do the job.

[Joey Smith]

I'm pretty much with Heath on this one. I would love to explore more of what a Democratic candidate stood for but the Abortion issue, which is pretty much party line Pro-Choice for Democrats, is something I will never be able to get past. For me, something is wrong at the very foundational or fundamental level of decision making for a candidate who understands this issue as a "choice". I can't get past that and that is severely limiting if I feel that I must vote(and I do).

Joey

[Desiree Guzman]

I think it's interesting that a lot of evangelicals are expressing that they don't feel a lot of excitement or interest in this campaign, since the majority of Americans are more engaged in politics and more passionate about these candidates than they have been in a long time. I am personally very excited (not that I think politics holds all the answers like some people do.)And I guess I'm kind of surprised that someone as inspiring and eloquent as Obama doesn't excite you, Dave. In my mind Obama is one of the most remarkable leaders to come around in a long time. He doesn't pass the Christian litmus test of abortion and gay marriage, which is probably why many evangelicals are not excited, but here is a guy who understands that the only way we can get things done is to end the overblown political divisions in our country and try to find common ground and respect for each other again. Here is a guy who brings a diverse racial perspective and can be instrumental in moving us toward racial healing in this country. A guy who wants to stop jumping to violence as the primary means for solving international problems. (For some reason evangelicals tend to be the strongest supporters of the war. I've never really understood that.) I feel like I could be proud of Obama as our President. Some people don't agree with his policy ideas, but I think most reasonable people at least respect him. And I think he would do wonders for our image around the world. Not to mention the historical nature of his candidacy. The whole world is excited about Obama. Many people around the globe are celebrating and starting to feel better about America already. (I can't wait to be in Kenya this summer and share in the celebrations that are happening there.) I'm not saying he's the answer to all our problems or anything close to that, but for me he is a compelling leader. And I think he has the best chance of anyone at inspiring people to work together for the common good. I have refugee friends who have been rushing to get their citizenship applications done in time to be able to vote for Obama. And many of the college students I work with are paying attention and want to be involved because they've been inspired by Obama as a candidate. I guess it depends on what you're looking to get from a President. Did you hear Obama's speech about race in America? If that didn't inspire and excite you, then nothing I can say will make a difference.

As a side note, have you read "Jesus for President" by Shane Claiborne? Very interesting book. (Not at all related to Obama or any candidate.)

[Jeff]

Not to totally toot my own horn, but I think this link will help you decide:

http://jedijeff.blogspot.com/2008/02/president-obama.html

[John]

Call me crazy, but I want a politicians that would finally get up at a podium and promise to do as little as possible for me.

I want politicians that will promise Less government benefits.

I want politicians that promise fewer programs.

I want politicians that promise less spending.

I want politicians that promise less taxes.

(As an aside, I recently pondered how much more I'd be able to give to the church and in turn the Jesus mission if I didn't pay as much as I did into Social Security and Medicare that I'll never see.)

But alas, the days of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country are long gone.

When I reflect upon the founding of the United States I admire the revolutionaries that created this great nation. We think of the oppression they were under. However, the colonists under King George would seem like libertarians compared to the amount of government involvement in our daily lives we have in the "free" U.S. today.

[carole turner]

Recently I read a great article in Christianity Today called "How to pick a President" and it spoke a lot about letting virtue not policy be what guides you in picking a candidate. I started looking into what McCain and Obama did in secret, before running for president, while running for president, their giving records, humanitarian works. Also, did they ever make hard decisions, go against what was popular because of principle and conviction? What I found tipped the scale for McCain.

No, it had nothing to do with the bull crap, exaggerated propaganda videos about Obama, or his crazy preacher. I still believe Obama is a good candidate, a good person. But for the longest time I just didn't like McCain. I really don't know why, he just didn't sit well with me. I believe now I was wrong. Now I see more of what I want in a president in John McCain then Barak Obama and I especially like Cindy McCain.

I actually have a list and for a while Obama's list was longer in favor of him, not much longer but still longer.

Also, McCain is the most non Christian Right Republican, and the most liberal Republican to run in quite a while, so to me that is good. (I don't believe Jesus is a Republican or a Democrat but most people on the Christian Right absolutely think He is a Republican and they swollow everything the Republican machine puts out there as being "Christian" and that makes me want to vomit.)

[carole turner]

In case you want to see the process I've gone through in politics this year you can visit my blog

thewardrobeandthewhitetree.com

or just click
http://www.thewardrobeandthewhitetree.com/search/label/Politics

[Tony Wheeler]

If only Dr. Ron Paul would have been able to get in there and get it done!

The more that I think about it, read about it, etc...The more that I think this nation has gone off the rails politically and governmentally.

Bob Barr will get my vote as Libertarian candidate. I'm not sure third parties are the answer, but if this nomination process is any indication of things to come from both main parties...there needs to be change. Not the kind of change that Obama is for, either.

[Scott]

I would vote for McCain....eight years ago. For me it comes down to who McCain selects for his VP candidate.

I lived in Arizona for 15 years and he was a great Senator. But his age scares me.

On the abortion issue, the President has little or no power to do anything. If you want to overturn Roe v. Wade or pass new legislation, vote for pro-life Senators and Republicans.

[Theresa]

My facebook status says it all "God help America". Guess I am glad that I am moving out of the country. But I may vote absenetee for McCain (coming from a die hard Democrat!). Barack is making promises that he cannot keep. I just hope the rest of America sees that before they get totally sucked in. The guy scares the heck out of me!

[Kirsten]

Call me naive or cynical, but I just don't believe that the president has that much authority or power to significantly impact policy--no matter who much they know or how much experience they have. But he(she) does have a huge impact on the moral of the country and on the way our country is viewed by the rest of the world. And both of those things I would say are in pretty poor shape right now. We need an inspiring visionary and innovator and change agent . . . we need you, Dave! :) But, since we can't have you, I have to agree with Desiree (you're shocked, right?) that our country needs to reconcile with the world and look at things through a different lens than we ever have before. I think Barack has the best chance of anyone of helping us do that--especially if he surrounds himself with the right team. Not much different than your job of running a church, huh?

[Brian]

For those of you even thinking of voting for Obama read below. Some of you think that a president can't do a whole lot while in office but he/she can do a lot to damage things. I feel very strongly that Obama will ruin America if he gets the chance and if you don't be careful and get the facts on this guy you are crazy. My opinion, the guy is a snake. Read below...
It's an amazing time to be alive in America . We're in a year of firsts in this presidential election: the first viable woman candidate; the first viable African-American candidate; and, a candidate who is the first front-running freedom fighter over 70. The next president of America will be a first.

We won't truly be in an election of firsts, however, until we judge every candidate by where they stand. We won't arrive where we should be until we no longer talk about skin color or gender. Now that Barack Obama steps to the front of the Democratic field, we need to stop talking about his race, and start talking about his policies and his politics.

The reality is this: Though the Democrats will not have a nominee until August, unless Hillary Clinton drops out, Mr. Obama is now the frontrunner, and its time America takes a closer and deeper look at him. Some pundits are calling him the next John F. Kennedy. He's not. He's the next George McGovern. And it's time people learned the facts.

Because the truth is that Mr. Obama is the single most liberal senator in the entire U.S. Senate. He is more liberal than Ted Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, or Mrs. Clinton. Never in my life have I seen a presidential frontrunner whose rhetoric is so far removed from his record. Walter Mondale promised to raise our taxes, and he lost. George McGovern promised military weakness, and he lost. Michael Dukakis promised a liberal domestic agenda, and he lost.

Yet Mr. Obama is promising all those things, and he's not behind in the polls. Why? Because the press has dealt with him as if he were in a beauty pageant.. Mr. Obama talks about getting past party, getting past red and blue, to lead the United States of America . But let's look at the more defined strokes of who he is underneath this superficial "beauty."

Start with national security, since the president's most important duties are as commander-in-chief. Over the summer, Mr. Obama talked about invading Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons; meeting without preconditions with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who vows to destroy Israel and create another Holocaust; and Kim Jong II, who is murdering and starving his people, but emphasized that the nuclear option was off the table against terrorists - something no president has ever taken off the table since we created nuclear weapons in the 1940s. Even Democrats who have worked in national security condemned all of those remarks. Mr. Obama is a foreign-policy novice who would put our national security at risk.

Next, consider economic policy. For all its faults, our health care system is the strongest in the world. And free trade agreements, created by Bill Clinton as well as President Bush, have made more goods more affordable so that even people of modest means can live a life that no one imagined a generation ago. Yet Mr. Obama promises to raise taxes on "the rich." How to fix Social Security? Raise taxes. How to fix Medicare? Raise taxes. Prescription drugs? Raise taxes. Free college? Raise taxes. Socialize medicine? Raise taxes. His solution to everything is to have government take it over. Big Brother on steroids, funded by your paycheck.

Finally, look at the social issues. Mr. Obama had the audacity to open a stadium rally by saying, "All praise and glory to God!" but says that Christian leaders speaking for life and marriage have "hijacked" - hijacked - Christianity. He is pro-partial birth abortion, and promises to appoint Supreme Court justices who will rule any restriction on it unconstitutional. He espouses the abortion views of Margaret Sanger, one of the early advocates of racial cleansing. His spiritual leaders endorse homosexual marriage, and he is moving in that direction. In Illinois , he refused to vote against a statewide ban - ban - on all handguns in the state. These are radical left, Hollywood , and San Francis co values, not Middle America values.

The real Mr. Obama is an easy target for the general election. Mrs. Clinton is a far tougher opponent. But Mr. Obama could win if people don't start looking behind his veneer and flowery speeches. His vision of "bringing America together" means saying that those who disagree with his agenda for America are hijackers or warmongers. Uniting the country means adopting his liberal agenda and abandoning any conflicting beliefs.

But right now everyone is talking about how eloquent of a speaker he is and - yes - they're talking about his race. Those should never be the factors on which we base our choice for president. Mr. Obama's radical agenda sets him far outside the American mainstream, to the left of Mrs. Clinton.

It's time to talk about the real Barack Obama. In an election of firsts, let's first make sure we elect the person who is qualified to be our president in a nuclear age during a global civilizational war.

Subject: Kind of scary, wouldn't you think Remember--God is good, and is in time, on time b every time

According to The Book of Revelations the anti-christ is:

The anti-christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA??

[Brian]

Brian,

I was tracking with you the whole way, in agreement with almost everything. You had a very strong argument going, then you dropped the anti-christ card.

It's that type of rhetoric that freqently gets us labeled as steretypical "Christians" instead of "Christ followers."

[Kirsten]

I guess I have to ask, Brian, if what you are saying is that it is not possible to be a strong Christ follower and still support Obama--even given the political views and policies he supports? Reading your post in some ways made me feel even stronger in my support for him. And there are other respected, intelligent Christ followers that agree. Check out this article about TD Jakes
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/04/jakes/index.html. I am not trying to enter into a debate here and will not post any more comments--I just want to encourage any "on the fence Christ-follower" that might be reading this that voting for a "conservative" is not synomymous with being a Christ-follower.

[Jeff]

If I hear ONE MORE person regurgitate the lies of the right wing that Obama is a Muslim, I will puke. To be of Muslim decent, one of your parents HAS to be Muslim. Your step father does not qualify as this.

I wear my liberal tag with pride. See - liberals were the ones that promoted and enacted civil rights. Liberals were the ones that that helped create social security along with other New Deal programs that assist all of us in times of need. Programs that help the least of us begin with liberals.

I have had it with the "tax cuts" of this current administration. I am paying WAY more in taxes than I did a couple years back. My quality of life has tanked not just with this, but with the increased cost of everything in the world, which are directly related to the failed policies that exist - policies McCain has vowed to continue.

I think we all forget one thing in regard to the members of Congress, whether local or federal - they are "representatives" of us. Heck - even one of the branches of the legislative branch has that in it's name! They are voted to serve a position to REPRESENT the ideals of the people from their area. I don't vote for someone hoping they will go there and vote the exact opposite of what I want. A true member of Congress should vote the will of the people of his district, not the whim and his/her personal beliefs. The idea is that their beliefs will match mine, as much as possible. No candidate is perfect. The only true representative I could vote for that follows me 100% is myself. That is why these members get voted to extended terms - the citizens of their districts feel the represent their thoughts and ideas. This is the only explanation for some of the radical members of Congress. As radical as they may have been, others in their city had to think just like them.

[Alison]

First off I think it is kind of interesting that we as "Christians" primarily focus on the abortion issue and the homosexual issue. Can we stop beating a dead horse? Even if we had a leader who thought these ideas were "bad", people would still do them. It's like the gun law. If we take the guns away from every one, people will still get them, and shoot them, and kill people. People do what they want. I just find it funny that we hang the presidental canidancy on those two issues. I'd hope we would looke for someone who is a little more three dimensional than that.

Secondly, if you are going to take the book of Revelation literally than please make sure you take the rest of the Bible literally. It would actually be helpful to read the end from the beginning. John uses a lot of Israelite Imagery from the Old Testament to demonstrate the alegory from the book of Revelation. I think Jesus makes the reality of the End very clearly in Matthew 24-26 when he is communicating to his followers to not try and understand the reality of the end times but to be ready.

[Desiree Guzman]

Dave, I think you opened a big can of worms on this one. : )

Many of the comments in this blog against Obama make me want to lash out in anger, but I think I will avoid the continued conversation and stick to the politics of hope, cooperation, and respect that drew me to Obama in the first place.

[John]

To bring this back to a lighter discussion...remember, if Mike Ditka almost ran for the IL Senate seat in 2004.

Had he done so, he would have trounced Obama (completely unknown at the time).

Nevertheless, Coach Ditka didn't run for the Senate seat paving the way for Obama to somehow rise up from Obscurity.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/14/ditka.senate/index.html

[Pat]

I am still undecided until I hear more from each candidate on all the issues, not just the 'hot-button' ones. I think it's important to vote based on where a person stands on everything and not just one particular issue. That said, I did watch all 3 speeches Tuesday night. Hillary's was very self-serving and was all about her. McCain's speech was great in content but his delivery was forced, almost stale. Obama had my attention from the minute he took the stage. By the end of the speech, I had tears in my eyes and I don't agree with him on several issues. The last 3 minutes of his speech was the best oratory I've heard since his speech 4 years ago at the convention. However, while I hear a lot of hope in his words, I haven't heard a lot of substance yet. I'm sure that will be forthcoming in the next 5 months. He made history Tuesday and will do it again in August when he accepts the nomination. He will do so on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech. While we talk a lot about equality of all people in America, I really never thought we'd see a minority candidate running for President in a major party. Hopefully we can finally look at people as just that, people - no labels, no prejudice - just people who are trying to make a better life for their familes. Who leads us through the next 4 years has yet to be determined. I only ask that we consider the candidates and all the issues and then make our choice as to whom we want to lead our nation.

[MrK]

Brian

I am sure glad you posted because you made me look up a lot of what you said against Obama and I saw that most of your post is opinion and not fact. I encourage anyone reading to do the same and simply search the internet on the topics Brian discussed and go to any reputable news source (even more conservative media such as MSNBC) to see for yourself. It seems some of this is true but some is waaaay out of context.

I think it is a GREAT representation of your credibility stating the facts with your last comment about reading Revelation. How could Revelation even mention a muslim if Islam wasn't around for hundreds of years after the Bible was written? I encourage everyone to do a search on biblegateway.com under any popular version for the word Muslim and it simply doesn't come up...

Talk about fluff..